Below is a speech she gave at a freethought group meeting in 2001.
From the FTA Minutes:
(Freethought Association of West Michigan, Meeting Minutes for October 24, 2001, #102)
There are Hedonist Christians, liberal Christians, and Evangelicals are nabbed all the time in sex scandals, child porn cases, as closeted homosexuals, etc. So is it necessary to abandon ones faith in order to pursue sin/pleasure? No.
Just ask Phillip Distasio, leader of Arcadian Fields Ministries, who was charged with sexually abusing 9 disabled boys. Just ask the Rev. Daniel Schulte, 53, of Chicago, IL, who was recently convicted for child porn. Just ask the Baptist minister Rev. Eugene Paul White, 71, recently sentenced to 180 years to life in prison for 12 counts of lewd and lascivious acts with a minor under 14, convicted of molesting his 4 adopted foster daughters. Just ask Shawn Davies, 33, of Scott County, KY. Shawn is charged with 9 counts of 2nd-degree statutory sodomy, 7 counts of furnishing pornographic materials to minors, 5 counts of use of a child in a sexual performance, 2 counts of endangering the welfare of a minor, and 4 other charges...one of the sodomies took place with a boy under 14 at a church youth lock-in, where he was the youth minister, at First Baptist Church in Greenwood, KY...
Need I go on? Any of you who subscribe to Freethought Today know of their "Black Collar Crime Blotter" section, which every month is [sadly] filled with these exact same clergy-related crime stories.
In other words, if #4 were true, it would not be necessary to "abandon faith", I could still go to church every Sunday, pray (or not), read the Bible (or not), and repent of my sinful ways (or not). I'm sure that if you asked these fellows, they surely wouldn't tell you they were atheists. If I wanted to be like them, I could keep both my unbelief and my sins secret, couldn't I?
Obviously, if you are #1 -- angry and rebellious, it begs the question on the existence of God. If I say I do not believe in Santa Claus, I cannot be angry with Santa, nor rebel against jolly ol' Saint Nick. So if someone is #1, they are not an atheist. [obviously, I can still hate Christmas, or those who celebrate Saint Nick, or consider belief in Santa to be harmful, without violating the logic of unbelief]
I think #2 and #3 are intertwined. The question of interest here is -- have they abandoned faith because they are looking for answers, or have they found the correct answers, and realized that faith never gave them an answer to their questions? If we just have some doubts about the Bible's composition, the canonization process, etc., then going to seminary may be an option. But if the problem of evil, the problem of God's hiddeness, and other strong atheistic arguments plague our souls, we are quite unlikely to find reprieve from the cracks in the dam that holds back our unbelief. I also find it interesting that the professor's research shows that more Christians deconvert when arguing with apostates than vice versa. It reminds me of Saint Paul's words..."a little leaven leavens the whole lump."
The old canard of #5 -- that someone "was never really a believer" is just what helps believers sleep at night. As hurtful as it is to tell people this, believers have to ignore the reality of a genuine faith that was abandoned. It helps them to say that we couldn't be just like them, praying, loving God, worshipping, singing hymns, obeying...
...Otherwise, they could one day be just like us.
________________
Technorati tags: apostasy
(Freethought Association of West Michigan, Meeting Minutes for October 24, 2001, #102)
Professor Tucker disclosed that she had had no other doctrinal doubts orI want to list those 5 myths concerning believers who leave the faith again concisely:
peripheral problems with biblically revealed truths. Rather, her main
uncertainty zeroed in directly on the heart of the matter: the existence of
God Itself. Findings by science seemed to continually push back this Being
from a personal, proximal one-to a less and less involved entity far off
somewhere on the outskirts of the deep vastness of space. Its heavenly home
tucked away somewhere among the billions of galaxies. These "Night
Sky" ponderings made her wish to live in the old, pre-scientific times, with
the attendant beliefs of geocentrism and a small, personal system of an Earth
lit by the greater and lesser lights of Sun and Moon, all for the benefit of
Man. She had begun to teach religious tenets, but it wasn't until she stopped
and really critically investigated the subject matter that she discovered
sharp challenges to her religious beliefs and practices...
Professor Tucker listed five myths about people who have abandoned their
faith. 1) "They are angry and rebellious." She found virtually no evidence
for this. Rather, people felt sorrow, initially. They experienced pain, not
anger. 2) "They can be argued back into faith." Because the person leaving
his/her faith has carefully and painstakingly dissected the reasons behind
this major worldview change, the Christian who proffers apologetics is more
likely to convert into non-belief in such an exchange. 3) "Doubters can find
help at Christian colleges and seminaries." This is not seen to be the case.
4) "They abandon their faith so that they can go out and sin freely." Our
presenter pointed out that too many people who profess faith sin more often
than non-believers and that this argument was not a motivational issue in
de-converting from faith. 5) "They were never sincere Christians to begin
with." She has come across example after example of the most earnest and
devout of evangelical, fundamentalist believers who became non-theists. Dan
Barker was mentioned as just one of these erstwhile believers.
She then listed some actual reasons given for "losing faith in faith."
Science & philosophy has eroded the faith of many former believers. The sense
of absence of any caring God was another. Another reason was the
myth-shattering experience of the critical examination of the scriptures.
Disappointment in God (Its apparent apathy or antipathy to Its creation) and
the hypocrisy of Christians were two other reasons listed. And finally, the
perception of a dogmatic anti-feminist and anti-homosexual stance of
fundamentalist Christianity was given for why some relinquish their faith.
1) "They are angry and rebellious."I know I've certainly been accused of leaving Christianity due to numbers 1, 4 and 5. I've also heard all five of these myths about apostates. I do find it rather humorous when people think that atheism is necessary for #4 -- they tell me I'm an atheist so I can "do what I want", or something of the sort. The funniest thing about that is that one can believe in God and do what one wants.
2) "They can be argued back into faith."
3) "Doubters can find help at Christian colleges and seminaries."
4) "They abandon their faith so that they can go out and sin freely."
5) "They were never sincere Christians to begin with."
There are Hedonist Christians, liberal Christians, and Evangelicals are nabbed all the time in sex scandals, child porn cases, as closeted homosexuals, etc. So is it necessary to abandon ones faith in order to pursue sin/pleasure? No.
Just ask Phillip Distasio, leader of Arcadian Fields Ministries, who was charged with sexually abusing 9 disabled boys. Just ask the Rev. Daniel Schulte, 53, of Chicago, IL, who was recently convicted for child porn. Just ask the Baptist minister Rev. Eugene Paul White, 71, recently sentenced to 180 years to life in prison for 12 counts of lewd and lascivious acts with a minor under 14, convicted of molesting his 4 adopted foster daughters. Just ask Shawn Davies, 33, of Scott County, KY. Shawn is charged with 9 counts of 2nd-degree statutory sodomy, 7 counts of furnishing pornographic materials to minors, 5 counts of use of a child in a sexual performance, 2 counts of endangering the welfare of a minor, and 4 other charges...one of the sodomies took place with a boy under 14 at a church youth lock-in, where he was the youth minister, at First Baptist Church in Greenwood, KY...
Need I go on? Any of you who subscribe to Freethought Today know of their "Black Collar Crime Blotter" section, which every month is [sadly] filled with these exact same clergy-related crime stories.
In other words, if #4 were true, it would not be necessary to "abandon faith", I could still go to church every Sunday, pray (or not), read the Bible (or not), and repent of my sinful ways (or not). I'm sure that if you asked these fellows, they surely wouldn't tell you they were atheists. If I wanted to be like them, I could keep both my unbelief and my sins secret, couldn't I?
Obviously, if you are #1 -- angry and rebellious, it begs the question on the existence of God. If I say I do not believe in Santa Claus, I cannot be angry with Santa, nor rebel against jolly ol' Saint Nick. So if someone is #1, they are not an atheist. [obviously, I can still hate Christmas, or those who celebrate Saint Nick, or consider belief in Santa to be harmful, without violating the logic of unbelief]
I think #2 and #3 are intertwined. The question of interest here is -- have they abandoned faith because they are looking for answers, or have they found the correct answers, and realized that faith never gave them an answer to their questions? If we just have some doubts about the Bible's composition, the canonization process, etc., then going to seminary may be an option. But if the problem of evil, the problem of God's hiddeness, and other strong atheistic arguments plague our souls, we are quite unlikely to find reprieve from the cracks in the dam that holds back our unbelief. I also find it interesting that the professor's research shows that more Christians deconvert when arguing with apostates than vice versa. It reminds me of Saint Paul's words..."a little leaven leavens the whole lump."
The old canard of #5 -- that someone "was never really a believer" is just what helps believers sleep at night. As hurtful as it is to tell people this, believers have to ignore the reality of a genuine faith that was abandoned. It helps them to say that we couldn't be just like them, praying, loving God, worshipping, singing hymns, obeying...
...Otherwise, they could one day be just like us.
________________
Technorati tags: apostasy
